DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:
That is FRESH AIR. I am TV critic David Bianculli, professor of tv research at Rowan College. As we speak we’re devoting our present to Tom Smothers, who died final week at age 86 after a battle with most cancers. Alongside along with his youthful brother, Dick, Tom was a member of the Smothers Brothers, whose 50-year profession made them one of many longest-running comedy acts in present enterprise. Dick performed the upright bass and was the straight man. Tom performed guitar and acted like an simply excited adolescent. Their voices blended superbly, their comedy timing was impeccable and their Sixties selection sequence, “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour,” was one of the vital vital and groundbreaking TV packages of its time.
As we speak we’ll salute Tom Smothers and the legacy he and Dick created along with her essential CBS program. We’ll pay attention again to an interview Terry Gross carried out with Tom and Dick again in 1985, an interview I carried out with Tom in 1997 and eventually, a chunk of the interview Terry carried out with me in 2009 when my e-book concerning the Smothers Brothers had simply been revealed. However first, let’s start with an appreciation that places Tom Smothers and his comedy hour in its correct perspective.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS COMEDY HOUR”)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: It is “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.”
BIANCULLI: Tom and Dick Smothers did not got down to be TV pioneers, however that is exactly what they had been. Earlier than “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour” ran on CBS from 1967 to 1969, nearly all TV leisure reveals got down to escape from actuality, to not replicate it. There have been common sitcoms a couple of speaking horse, a private genie, a visiting Martian, even a lifeless mom reincarnated as an car. Rein-car-nated (ph) – get it? The Smothers Brothers had even starred in a type of escapist sitcoms, with Tom taking part in Dick’s guardian angel. However they hated that present, walked away from it and returned to the nightclub circuit and the recording of their hit comedy albums. These LPs within the early ’60s portrayed them as brothers who poked enjoyable at people singers and people songs when not arguing amongst and about themselves.
Musically, they had been ok to nail the songs and the harmonies, whereas usually including their very own comedian twists. This is their model of the traditional western tune “Streets Of Laredo” from one in every of their early albums. It is from one in every of my early albums, too. It is a recording from my copy of the unique vinyl LP, which explains all of the pops and clicks.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “STREETS OF LAREDO”)
THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS: (Singing) As I walked out in Laredo sooner or later I spied a younger cowboy all wearing white linen. Wearing white linen as chilly because the clay.
DICK SMOTHERS: (Singing) I see by your outfit that you’re a cowboy.
TOM SMOTHERS: (Singing) I see by your outfit you’re a cowboy, too.
THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS: (Singing) We see by our outfits that we’re each cowboys. When you get an outfit, you generally is a cowboy, too.
(LAUGHTER)
BIANCULLI: Of their early nightclub years and early albums, they discovered and perfected their distinctive comedian method. They turned immediate stars after showing on Jack Paar’s “Tonight” present, then stored constructing on their twin strengths, satirizing the earnestness of folks singers and bringing a comic book explosion of sibling rivalry entrance and middle. After a couple of years, everybody was so aware of Tom’s catchphrase to his brother Dick, the brothers used it because the title of an album, “Mother At all times Appreciated You Finest.”
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
T SMOTHERS: Yeah. Mother gave you a canine. My mother gave my brother a canine, and I did not get to have a canine. And greater than…
D SMOTHERS: Everyone had canine.
T SMOTHERS: I did not have a canine. You bought to have a canine and greater than something in the entire world. I wished to have a canine of my very own. I requested my mother, I stated, Mother, I wish to have a canine like my brother Dicky Smothers. You keep in mind me. I am Tommy Smothers.
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: And I by no means obtained to have…
D SMOTHERS: All proper. That’s…
T SMOTHERS: …A canine, and also you would not let me play along with your canine or something. I keep in mind once I was 10 years previous, I stated if I may solely have a canine. My brother had a canine, and I could not…
D SMOTHERS: Stop crying.
T SMOTHERS: I did not get to play along with your canine, and you’d at all times inform Mother once I performed along with your canine. Hey. Tommy is taking part in with my canine. You keep in mind Tommy, the child you do not like an excessive amount of.
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: And I did not get to play with a canine, and I did not have a canine.
D SMOTHERS: Maintain it a minute. Earlier than you go any additional, you had your personal pet already.
T SMOTHERS: Crummy rooster.
(LAUGHTER)
D SMOTHERS: You wished it.
T SMOTHERS: It is no enjoyable taking part in with a rooster.
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: They do not bark good.
BIANCULLI: So when CBS executives got here to the Smothers Brothers asking them to host a spread present they sorely wanted to fill a gap of their schedule, nobody thought the brothers would trigger any bother, not even the brothers. They started every hour of that first season of “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour” with time-tested, finely honed routines from their nightclub act, just like the music “Cabbage,” with which they opened their very first episode.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “CABBAGE”)
THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS: (Singing) Boil that cabbage down.
D SMOTHERS: Take it, Tom.
T SMOTHERS: No.
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: I did not really feel like taking it.
D SMOTHERS: You did not hear me proper. I stated take it, Tom.
T SMOTHERS: I heard you clear as a bell. You stated take it. Typically if a fella does not really feel like taking it, he simply stands proper up as an American. He says no.
D SMOTHERS: Agreed, agreed, agreed. A fella does not should take it.
T SMOTHERS: I do not – I…
D SMOTHERS: You are not a fella.
(LAUGHTER)
D SMOTHERS: You are a people singer, Tommy. You took on tasks. You need to take it.
T SMOTHERS: Yeah. However…
D SMOTHERS: You have learn the people singers guidebook.
T SMOTHERS: Yeah. However I do not…
D SMOTHERS: You learn the e-book, proper?
T SMOTHERS: I simply did not…
D SMOTHERS: Did you learn the e-book?
T SMOTHERS: Sure, I learn the e-book.
D SMOTHERS: OK. Then you definitely learn the people singers credo.
T SMOTHERS: Effectively, see; I simply did not…
D SMOTHERS: The credo, Tommy, says – the credo says all people singers are obligated to do what?
T SMOTHERS: I did not…
D SMOTHERS: Inform everyone. Take a look at them, and say what you might be obligated to do.
(LAUGHTER)
D SMOTHERS: All people singers are obligated…
T SMOTHERS: You are – to take it.
BIANCULLI: However when the sequence proved immediately and unexpectedly common, Tom Smothers, his head author, Mason Williams, and the opposite writers got down to say issues – issues about politics, warfare, medication and the occasions typically, which led to censorship by CBS. That, in flip, led to more and more fierce battles about what may and could not be televised. On the finish, after three seasons, Tom and Dick Smothers had been fired by CBS and their present pulled from the air. The Smothers Brothers sued and gained, however the injury was completed, and so they had misplaced their prime-time platform, however not earlier than making a number of invaluable contributions to tv.
Tom Smothers, along with his eye for expertise and his enthusiasm for showcasing new artists, was the hyperlink between Ed Sullivan earlier than him and Lorne Michaels of “Saturday Night time Dwell” after him. Mason Williams, Pat Paulsen, Leigh French, Steve Martin and Rob Reiner all began with the Smothers Brothers. And CBS, after firing Tom and Dick, reversed course and sought out controversial reveals somewhat than avoiding and punishing them. Within the few years after pulling “The Smothers Brothers” from the air, CBS offered the feminist comedy of “The Mary Tyler Moore Present,” the anti-war comedy of “M*A*S*H” and the ultra-controversial comedy of “All In The Household.” Tom Smothers, along with his brother Dick and their workers, paved the best way for all these reveals in addition to much more straight for “SNL,” Jon Stewart, Invoice Maher and John Oliver.
(SOUNDBITE OF MASON WILLIAMS’ “THE BROTHERS THEME”)
BIANCULLI: Now, let’s hear Terry’s 1985 interview with Tom and Dick Smothers. She started with a clip through which they spoofed the seriousness of folks music.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “HANGMAN”)
D SMOTHERS: Many people songs have have been written within the first particular person. The unique genuine people songs – they’ve been written in the course of the precise incidence of a historic occasion by somebody who was concerned on this occasion. The music my brother want to sing now was written within the first particular person by a person about 150 years in the past. It is entitled “Hangman.”
T SMOTHERS: (Singing) Hangman, hangman, slack your rope. Hangman, hangman, slack your rope. Slack it for previous (vocalizing).
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: It is quick.
(APPLAUSE)
D SMOTHERS: We’ve one other music which is an previous people music. And it hasn’t been sung sufficient currently. We really feel it has been form of uncared for. And it is a very good music, and I do know you will acknowledge it the second we begin. (Singing) Jimmy crack corn, and I do not care.
T SMOTHERS: (Singing) Jimmy crack corn, and I do not care.
D SMOTHERS: (Singing) Jimmy crack corn, and Jimmy…
T SMOTHERS: (Singing) I do not care. I do not care.
D SMOTHERS: Wait a minute.
(LAUGHTER)
D SMOTHERS: That is not the best way the music goes.
T SMOTHERS: I do not care.
(LAUGHTER)
BIANCULLI: Tom Smothers defined to Terry that he and his brother did not begin out performing people music.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
T SMOTHERS: That form of edged in us – is after we first began singing in highschool, it was barbershop quartets. We had been within the choirs collectively. We had a bit band, dance band. Then we sang the songs of the day, which was – what was it? – one thing Smith and the Redheads. What was it? (Singing) Be certain it is true once I say – so we weren’t into people music in any respect till the people music began. Then we began – after we see Judy Collins, I keep in mind she would sing each hanging music, , each verse…
D SMOTHERS: Minor key.
T SMOTHERS: …Each refrain, plenty of minor key songs.
D SMOTHERS: Unhappy songs.
T SMOTHERS: Don Crawford, a very good buddy in Denver, was very – did a profound efficiency of “John Henry.”
D SMOTHERS: About 12 minutes lengthy.
T SMOTHERS: Yeah. So I’d go on the market. And for some cause, I at all times would mimic folks and it will be – we had been referred to as satirists. I did not even know what the phrase was till they stated the Smothers Brothers satirized the people music craze. We’re simply on the market. I might hear somebody sing a music, and so they’d be lethal critical about it, and I could not assist however simply form of poke a bit enjoyable at it.
TERRY GROSS: Effectively, one of many issues that you simply each did had been actually long-winded introductions to the songs. And I used to be questioning in case you thought it was overly critical of plenty of people musicians to launch into the, , historic causes and the ethnic causes behind a music that they’d carry out.
D SMOTHERS: The long-winded introductions was simply the character of folks music, and I discovered them very attention-grabbing. I by no means thought they had been pompous or something like that. And to inform a background of how a music simply occurred when folks did not go round writing them – , it was fantastic. Then working with – we obtained on the tail finish of issues. Was it Sonny Terry, Brownie – was it Brownie?
GROSS: Brownie McGhee.
T SMOTHERS: Yeah.
D SMOTHERS: Josh White Sr. and Oscar Model. We did a few of his stuff – some fantastic folks on the market. And the the best way the songs took place, the best way they had been created, to me, was very attention-grabbing. After which simply to make enjoyable in a lighthearted method and simply have a very ridiculous story that has nothing to do with the music. Like, Tommy had…
T SMOTHERS: “Darkish As A Dungeon.”
D SMOTHERS: “Darkish As A Dungeon.” Essentially the most ludicrous can be “They Name The Wind Maria.” There’s an previous Jewish people music “Mashiach” (ph).
T SMOTHERS: “Mashiach.”
D SMOTHERS: After which “Hava Nagila,” the place they danced round a hat. There was a – it was a rain dance, truly danced across the umbrella. And much like how they danced round hats, the Mexicans, and prayed for hair. And also you simply – the additional – the larger the lie, it simply turns into humorous.
GROSS: What had been your alternate options? Did you’ve got different plans in case you did not turn out to be performers?
D SMOTHERS: We by no means knew we had been going to in a long run – perhaps Tommy – he in all probability feels completely different. I at all times thought it was a summer season job for fairly – for about 10 years. I assumed it was a summer season job. And I by no means anticipated initially to to make it a paying career. It was one thing to do after we had been younger and drop out of faculty a bit bit. And we simply appeared to get one other job, and that was success. So I by no means deliberate a yr prematurely or no matter. I used to be going to return to high school, in actual fact, after we labored a yr and turn out to be instructing main. And I obtained married. And I used to be going to – , we did our shot, our little enjoyable factor. And if it wasn’t for The Limeliters giving us a job at their membership in Aspen in 1960, I do not know if we’d have tried being a duet.
GROSS: So, Tom Smothers, what was your alternate plan if…
T SMOTHERS: I had no alternate plan. I nonetheless don’t have any alternate plan.
D SMOTHERS: You need to have a plan to have an alternate.
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: I at all times wished to be a comic. And once I first noticed George Gobel, who was my first affect once I was – anyway, 12, 13, 14 – he was doing “The Ed Sullivan Present.” I assumed it was marvelous what this man did. And I might like to do this. I advised my principal – I stated, that is what I love to do. And so I at all times had a – I used to be – had a coping drawback. I used to be fairly gradual at school, and I used to be genuinely making an attempt to get my applause not by way of scholastics however by way of consideration getting. If I used to be late for sophistication, as an alternative of strolling within the again door and sliding into the seat, , I walked within the entrance door and apologized to the instructor after which to every of the scholars individually till I used to be despatched to the principal’s workplace, actually deadpan. I knew I had this type of a – little little bit of a present to get folks laughing.
GROSS: The issue, I’d count on, is in case you play a jerk on stage, that off stage, folks may assume that you simply’re dimwitted. You realize, did that ever occur to you? – that folks would assume, , off stage, that you simply had the persona?
T SMOTHERS: I used to be so near my onstage, offstage. There was only a very skinny line between…
D SMOTHERS: Individuals would come as much as you on the Purple Line at your first job and say, why – do not do that? That is so painful. If it is so upsetting to you, do not get on that stage.
T SMOTHERS: Effectively, that is that is superb efficiency as a result of that is like being in actually – crawling into the pores and skin of the no matter character you select. And that was the one one I had. And I used to be strolling down the road within the Purple Line, and a few man says, are you able to inform me the place the Black Cat Cafe is? I stated, yeah, it is simply down that one avenue, and switch left. And he says, I do know the place it’s. I simply wished to see in case you knew how you can give route. You are so silly on stage.
GROSS: What about you, Dick Smothers? Did your persona on stage because the simply extra sensible, down-to-earth persona apply to the function you actually performed in your relationship along with your brother?
D SMOTHERS: Yeah, I feel so. That is the best way I’m in actual life, simply exaggerated. I feel we exaggerate our pure tendencies after we get into comedy, after which it is plausible. You realize, in case you create anyone who’s not there, I feel you must be a superior actor to let anyone purchase it. I am fairly logical. Principally, if issues do not make any sense to me, I do not wish to do it. And that is the best way I management our relationship on stage with Tommy. You realize, he would he would go off on a tangent, and I’d appropriate him.
T SMOTHERS: I am 22 months older than Dick, which is opposite to the best way an act must be arrange.
D SMOTHERS: I ought to have be the older man with my persona, and (inaudible) must be the youthful brother, ? So it reveals we had no plan in any way.
(LAUGHTER)
BIANCULLI: Dick and Tom Smothers speaking with Terry Gross in 1985. As we speak we’re remembering Tom Smothers, who died final week on the age of 86. Extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MASON WILLIAMS’ “GREENSLEEVES”)
BIANCULLI: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to Terry’s 1985 interview with Tom and Dick Smothers. CBS gave them their very own selection present in 1967. She requested Tom what he requested for after they got artistic management.
T SMOTHERS: That meant the fabric, the…
D SMOTHERS: Content material.
T SMOTHERS: …Management of the writers, content material, the look of the present, every part. And the truth that it actually went properly – we had a pleasant solid of individuals put collectively by the producers and every part, nevertheless it wasn’t fairly what we wished. Nevertheless it developed, developed, and it obtained youthful writers, obtained Mason Williams. I might convey them in, if I did not just like the – if a author appeared like he was cliche and was bringing out previous materials, not artistic, new concepts, we would substitute them every cycle, every 13-week interval till we had just about what we – what I wished. The occasions dictated – consciousness took place about that point.
Within the mid-’60s when Vietnam, voter registration, Selma – all these issues began coming by way of and so they began leaking into our minds, our personal consciousness. And so they began popping out a bit bit in attitudes within the present. And our writers had been younger. And we form of had this little form of small group that labored late into the night time. Not one of the different reveals did. We’re leaving generally 1 o’clock, 12 o’clock at night time from transforming sketches and stuff. And everyone had love beads on, sandals. It was an actual – we had been an actual product of the occasions, and we mirrored that viewpoint that was not being heard.
D SMOTHERS: So then immediately, as soon as it was successful, it was a shock hit. It actually was. No person predicted it. CBS wished us to tug again, did not need any controversy or something, not realizing the content material of the present was, largely, a part of its success. In order that was a working battle for 72 – I feel we did 72 episodes. It was just about a working battle from Day 1 by way of the firing on the final.
GROSS: Effectively, they really censored – deleted a number of the efficiency excerpts.
D SMOTHERS: Oh, loads.
T SMOTHERS: Yeah.
D SMOTHERS: That was their authorized proper. And as soon as they obtained it, they – I assume by the contracts and stuff, they might take out something they wished. However that is…
GROSS: How did that work? When would you must ship the present to them, so to talk?
D SMOTHERS: Oh, that was one other entire factor.
T SMOTHERS: (Laughter).
D SMOTHERS: It modified. It modified yearly. At first, we delivered the reveals only a regular apply. However I feel the best way it was, was a couple of week…
T SMOTHERS: A strike occurred, a musicians’ strike.
D SMOTHERS: Musicians’ strike.
T SMOTHERS: In order that put every part behind. And a few of these issues – so we had been impulsively working – taping on a Friday, delivering a – for a Sunday present. That’d imply modifying with a razor blade. And I, in fact, being naive and never realizing something about tv, I concerned myself in every part.
D SMOTHERS: Effectively, wait a minute. Razor blade implies that – they didn’t have the digital sophistication that they’ve now, so that you truly bodily take razor blades and minimize tapes and put items collectively. And so they labored straight by way of, proper after manufacturing.
T SMOTHERS: Oh, yeah, went nice (ph).
D SMOTHERS: After which they gave it to a woman, and he or she flew to New York and handed them…
T SMOTHERS: Sure.
D SMOTHERS: …These tapes.
T SMOTHERS: Our tape (ph).
D SMOTHERS: And so…
T SMOTHERS: So after they would say, we do not like this half right here or say you need to take that out or we’ll take it out, I might say, properly, I will take it out. And it did take a very long time to do it.
GROSS: What would you – you’d should put one thing again in to interchange it?
T SMOTHERS: Not in the event that they wished it out. We offered our contractual obligation, which was to current a present of an hour’s size, or no matter it was, minus the commercials. After that, they might take it out. They took issues out and put in a Nixon industrial when it was political.
D SMOTHERS: (Laughter).
T SMOTHERS: Oh, in fact, I obtained livid.
GROSS: What had they taken out to place within the Nixon industrial?
T SMOTHERS: I do not keep in mind.
D SMOTHERS: I do, I do. It was the entire Belafonte piece, “Mama, Look A Boo Boo.” It was the ’68 conference information footage from Chicago, the bloody riots and every part. And Belafonte sang some “Calypso” numbers to information footage that had been seen on the air, nothing offensive about it besides, properly, you’d see Mayor Daley within the information footage on the conference. And the lyric may say, look a boo boo…
T SMOTHERS: (Laughter).
D SMOTHERS: …Or one thing like that. It was gentle satire. They took the entire hunk out. It should have been 5 minutes or extra.
T SMOTHERS: No, no, it was seven.
D SMOTHERS: Seven minutes, and put in an enormous Nixon, which was a bit salt within the wound. Nevertheless it was gamesmanship, I feel, a bit bit there.
T SMOTHERS: It was hardball.
BIANCULLI: Tom and Dick Smothers speaking with Terry Gross in 1985. Arising, we proceed our retrospective on Tom Smothers. This is Harry Belafonte performing “Do not Cease The Carnival,” a quantity minimize in its entirety from that selection present’s third season opener. I am David Bianculli, and that is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “DON’T STOP THE CARNIVAL”)
HARRY BELAFONTE: (Singing) I’ve to speak to the governor as we speak regarding the carnival parade. I’ve to speak to the governor as we speak regarding the carnival parade. In Trinidad, folks working wild. Governor say no carnival. An enormous riot, police and factor, picket signal and the folks begin to sing, Lord, do not cease the carnival. Lord, do not cease the carnival. Carnival is an American bacchanal. Lord, do not cease the carnival. Haven’t any concern in case you minimize out the New 12 months. Lord, do not cease the carnival. Make no fuss in case you minimize out the Christmas. Lord, do not cease the carnival. Right here come me lady strolling up the block, with she backside going like a clock. Right here come me lady strolling up the block, with she backside going like a clock. No carnival, me lady stated. Oh, Lord, you higher off lifeless. Present me the best way to the governor’s mansion, I’ll have me a wrecking session. Lord, do not cease the carnival. Lord, do not cease the carnival. Carnival is an American bacchanal. Lord, do not cease the carnival.
(SOUNDBITE OF LEE MORGAN’S “THE SIDEWINDER”)
BIANCULLI: That is FRESH AIR, I am David Bianculli. On as we speak’s present, we’re remembering Tom Smothers of the comedy duo the Smothers Brothers, who died final week at age 86. On the fiftieth anniversary of their being fired from “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour” by CBS, the Nationwide Comedy Middle and the Chautauqua Establishment hosted their onstage reunion earlier than 1000’s of adoring followers. I used to be there because the moderator, and my job was to introduce clips and throw out some inquiries to Tom and Dick. It was the one time I ever shared the stage with them. And although I used to be properly conscious of Tom’s self-critical nature, this was an opportunity for me to see a complete new aspect of him, his eager instincts for what he thought was humorous and why.
He wished sooner or later to do his act because the Yo-Yo Man, the place Dick presents commentary whereas Tom silently does yo-yo methods and acts form of like a human Gumby. I provided a number of solutions about when to introduce the Yo-Yo Man bit, however Tom shot all of them down. Lastly, I steered to Tom, why do not you simply do it each time the urge strikes you. Interrupt me or Dick or your self and simply arise and pull out your yo-yo. He gave me a smile, one I will always remember, as a result of he noticed the chances immediately. And later onstage, halfway by way of one in every of my questions, he pulled out his yo-yo and the viewers went loopy. Tom Smothers was laborious on himself and laborious to please, however once I spoke to him for FRESH AIR in 1997, he lastly shifted from self-deprecation to a grudging appreciation of what he and Dick had completed onstage, on information, and particularly on tv.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
BIANCULLI: Relating to the ’60s, you actually cannot discover something on tv that boiled all of it down into one lump than “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.” I imply, the sexual revolution, the medication, the rock ‘n’ roll, the peace motion, the era hole, anti-authority – it is all proper there. And but you probably did it with out shedding the core viewers that you simply began with.
T SMOTHERS: Effectively, that was an distinctive factor. Mason Williams was a fantastic contributor, and the method was actually enjoyable. We by no means fairly had an opportunity to – I at all times sought to do the craft higher, and that is in all probability what I am serious about. Somebody advised me Bob Newhart was – they did an interview with him and so they’re taking part in a few of his previous albums again, and in reality, his first album, “The Button-Down Thoughts.” He says, God, I can not stand it. Do not play it, do not play it. And so they say, why? It is nice. So, properly, they took a number of the pauses out to tighten it up, and that is not my timing (laughter). So I do not assume anyone who’s ever been a author or a performer or a musician, has recorded or revealed one thing, hasn’t seemed again at their earlier work with a extra crucial eye than the one that did it.
BIANCULLI: Effectively, wasn’t timing at all times very, essential to you and your brother by way of the pauses, by way of the methods you’d begin an act with simply a few minutes after which, , you flip round a couple of years later – you guys are at all times evolving it – and impulsively it is a nine-, 10-minute bit.
T SMOTHERS: Effectively, I consider that timing, it is, like, a very powerful – silence might be a very powerful a part of music. And silence or pressure is without doubt one of the most essential issues in comedy. The extra air we will put in there, the higher. I additionally felt that regardless that the present was – I assumed “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour” in totality was – lined all these bases, plenty of issues. I felt that Dick and I personally, we did not have a lot air. I used to be concerned in cue playing cards.
So that is form of a self-critical statement. I really feel significantly better concerning the reveals. I beloved them after we did it. I simply really feel a bit uncomfortable them now due to – it may have gone higher. That is the factor. However air – like, Laurel and Hardy had such fantastic house. And timing is – it does not even should be an astute statement, it simply needs to be timed proper. And if we will maintain pressure, that makes it distinctive. And whether or not or not it’s content material or no content material, you’ll be able to maintain the stress of an viewers that method.
BIANCULLI: Now, do you’re feeling that while you got here round to do the revival sequence – , CBS had you do a twentieth anniversary particular, after which they might grant you a few reveals right here, a few reveals there, a few reveals – that on these you had been in a position to focus extra by yourself act with your self and your brother?
T SMOTHERS: I used to be higher in a position to give attention to the present and on the act. However undoubtedly Dick and I, after watching the primary reveals, I do not forget that we had been – I’d see cue playing cards. I’d be studying cue playing cards, simply the attention contact wasn’t there. So I made certain this reunion present, there was no cue playing cards, that we – so the house, we may actually assume and discuss. And likewise the precise present itself had a total higher tempo.
BIANCULLI: How essential is eye contact to the best way you’re employed along with your brother?
T SMOTHERS: It is every part. It is humorous, we – you’ll be able to see folks after they’re not one another, in the event that they’re studying cue playing cards. The strain can maintain significantly better when two persons are looking at one another. And you’ll – it is palpable, even when it is a whole aspect view, going through one another the place you’ll be able to’t even see the eyes. There is a head cocked, there’s physique language that tells you that there is eye contact being made.
BIANCULLI: While you obtained “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour,” did not you get the chance of artistic management since you had been principally going right into a no-lose time slot like somebody would as we speak entering into reverse “Seinfeld”?
T SMOTHERS: Just about. Additionally, there isn’t any cause to not grant us artistic management as a result of we had proven no inclination – we had been short-hairs.
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: We had been clean-cut. They did not count on something that occurred to occur. I do not assume anyone at the moment within the mid-’60s anticipated the expression of dismay over the warfare and voter registration, all this stuff that had been simply going down, and sexual revolution. All these issues. So…
BIANCULLI: Effectively, had been you simply laying within the weeds? I imply, did you’ve got this grand plan?
T SMOTHERS: No (laughter), I had no plan. I feel most individuals do not have plans that generally do one thing extraordinary. I obtained censored. So I began saying issues that – not even realizing that there was something flawed with them. However then I began changing into a bit extra concerned, after which fairly quickly it turned a – somebody says, you’ll be able to’t say that, I’d say, oh, we will to (laughter).
BIANCULLI: Yeah. Effectively, you had been principally the one younger man with a platform at the moment on prime-time tv.
T SMOTHERS: We had been – in hindsight, I can see what we had been – the Smothers Brothers had been just about – had no alternative. We had been younger. The entire workers was principally younger with some seasoned writers in there. However primarily it was underneath 30 – Rob Reiner, Steve Martin, Mason Williams, Bob Einstein. They’re all – and so they all felt the identical method as youth did. It was a fantastic cultural conflict, and we had been there with a present, and we needed to replicate that. It was simply – I feel it was a accountability, regardless that I did not assume it then. However I understand it now as that we had no alternative.
BIANCULLI: However I nonetheless do not assume you are giving your self sufficient credit score. To say that you simply had no alternative and had been form of dragged alongside, otherwise you had been on the – , the fringes of this motion that had been carrying round anyway is one factor. However you had been – by way of the rock and roll acts that you simply offered, the issues that you simply introduced on, the stuff that you simply mentioned, going towards the warfare, you principally had been the middle.
T SMOTHERS: There was simply plenty of serendipity within the Smothers Brothers – younger, had a No. 1 – had an enormous present, occurred to be throughout these very culturally form of shake – earthquake, cultural earthquake and social. And we had been younger sufficient when all these issues occurred. I at all times simply say we had been on the scene of the accident and made the very best of it we may. We had been there. We didn’t shirk our obligation to convey to tv as clever and as attention-grabbing a present as we may. However I feel circumstances actually made an enormous distinction as a result of if we would have been had that present within the ’50s or we had within the ’80s, we’d have by no means had the impression, even when we would have been diligently making an attempt to do probably the most clever, considerate observations about life.
BIANCULLI: Maybe your most well-known act of defiance on “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour,” breaking the again – the blacklist on Pete Seeger and reserving him. And was {that a} calculated effort in your half to form of rail towards the CBS censors?
T SMOTHERS: I consider that was in ’68 – one of many final two seasons. And I did get extra cussed, extra resolute in my want, and our crew and our writers wished to specific issues, and it was extra calculated. As a matter of truth, I stated to all our friends that had been ever friends on it – whether or not or not it’s new teams or previous teams or actors or comedians, I at all times say, you are our visitor on our present. Was there something you’d love to do? And we would prefer to current what you’d love to do. And Pete Seeger stated, “Waist Deep In The Huge Muddy.” And we sang it rehearsal, and I stated, that is proper on, and be my visitor. After which the censors checked out it and says, veiled reflection on our coverage in Vietnam. It wasn’t very veiled, however I did purposely say, sure, that is good. They’d minimize it out. We introduced him again the following yr. And I stated, what would you prefer to sing? He says, “Waist Deep In The Huge Muddy.” I stated, properly, be my visitor. This time, as a result of it obtained a lot publicity and the phrase – ugly phrase censorship was arising, they let it go. And people – it was the one present, I assume, that had a topical viewpoint about our involvement in Vietnam. It was a foul concept, and it was morally bankrupt, I assumed, ethically flawed. However that consciousness came to visit all of us within the strategy of doing this present.
BIANCULLI: Tom Smothers in 1997. Arising, we pay attention again to my dialog with Terry Gross about my e-book, “Dangerously Humorous: The Uncensored Story Of The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.” That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “MY GENERATION”)
THE WHO: (Singing) My, my era. Why do not you all simply fade away?
BIANCULLI: That is FRESH AIR. We’re remembering Tom Smothers of the comedy duo the Smothers Brothers. He died final week on the age of 86. In 2009, I wrote a e-book about Tom and Dick titled “Dangerously Humorous: The Uncensored Story Of The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.” That is once I sat down to speak with Terry.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: David, welcome to FRESH AIR, and congratulations on the e-book.
BIANCULLI: Oh, thanks loads.
GROSS: Now, you’ve got introduced some actually good clips with you from episodes of the Smothers Brothers’ TV sequence. And I might like to begin with one ‘trigger I feel it provides a very good sense of the Smothers Brothers’ comedy and likewise how they managed to convey politics into their present. So would you introduce it for us?
BIANCULLI: Yeah, certain. I like this ‘trigger it is a pretty early clip when the Smothers Brothers are nonetheless form of thought of to be, , simply genial, good people satirists, and but they’re beginning to hit on public points and even assault the president in a really apparent method.
GROSS: And this was President Johnson.
BIANCULLI: That is President Johnson on the time. Sure.
GROSS: OK. So let’s hear it.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS COMEDY HOUR”)
D SMOTHERS: Hey, Tom. You realize, I simply learn within the newspaper this week the place President Johnson has requested Congress to go a sequence of taxes, , to discourage folks from touring overseas.
T SMOTHERS: No, I do not – I…
D SMOTHERS: What do you consider that?
T SMOTHERS: I learn that, too, however I do not assume he has to go that far. I do not assume that is essential to go that far with it.
D SMOTHERS: Effectively, take a look at it. It is a very, very, very, very troublesome scenario. You realize, folks maintain…
T SMOTHERS: Sure.
D SMOTHERS: …Spending cash overseas, and it is hurting our financial system. Individuals maintain eager to journey to different nations as an alternative of staying right here in america.
T SMOTHERS: Yeah, properly, I feel President Johnson ought to give you one thing constructive as an inducement to maintain the folks right here, one thing very constructive and…
D SMOTHERS: Yeah. That is proper.
T SMOTHERS: …As an inducement to maintain the folks…
D SMOTHERS: That is good considering. However look. What can the president do to make folks wish to keep on this nation?
T SMOTHERS: Effectively, he may stop.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: David, was that thought of fairly radical on the time?
BIANCULLI: Yeah, for an leisure selection present, nearly unprecedented, the place you had these figures that had been truly speaking about public coverage. TV within the ’60s – the Smothers Brothers started in February of ’67. At that time, nearly all of prime time was making an attempt deliberately to be as innocuous as potential. And the Smothers Brothers got here on. And at a time when there was one tv in the home and everyone watched it, for the primary couple of seasons, they pulled this wonderful magic act and straddled the chasm of the era hole. That they had Kate Smith and Simon & Garfunkel on the identical present. That they had Mickey Rooney and The Who on the identical present and appealed to each, , generations.
GROSS: David, a lot about so many alternative TV reveals. You are simply, like, a strolling encyclopedia of tv. Of all of the reveals you may have written a historical past of, why did you select the Smothers Brothers?
BIANCULLI: This one – I questioned about that. This one, truly, I did as soon as I used to be into it, and I used to be into, like, my fifth yr of writing and my tenth yr of writing. And I spotted, I feel this present, to begin with, was at a pivotal level in TV historical past, that Tom Smothers fought for freedom of expression and fought for a complete era and misplaced. And so TV modified and adjusted actually considerably. And I argue that we have by no means gotten it again. I imply, the issues that we consider as TV freedom – it is on cable, or it is on late night time. However in prime time, we have not often had it since. After which the private factor is that this present premiered once I was 13, and the entire stuff that was on there meant a lot to me simply because I used to be at that impressionable age, and I used to be watching with my dad, and it was only a very nice, weekly expertise.
GROSS: You talked about you wished to write down this e-book partly as a result of Tom Smothers fought and misplaced. And what he misplaced was the censorship battle. There was a substantial quantity of censorship of the present, and he actually took a stand, and he misplaced, and the present was taken off the air by the community, CBS. Let’s discuss a bit bit about what censorship was like on TV then. And we’re speaking concerning the second half of the Sixties. What are a number of the stuff you could not say then that you may say now?
BIANCULLI: Effectively, famously, when Lucille Ball was pregnant in actual life and wrote it into her character within the ’60s, she could not even use the phrase pregnant within the episode through which she was having a child. They needed to say it in Spanish – enceinte. You realize, I imply, it was so ridiculous. The censorship was so pervasive that even recounting it, it appears so foolish. They minimize a whole sketch with Elaine Might as a result of it was censors getting excited concerning the films that they had been censoring. And somewhat than minimize a phrase or two, they minimize the whole sketch.
GROSS: And there was the phrase in it – what’s it – I really feel in my coronary heart beating in my breast? And so they would not allow them to say breast. In order that they ended up saying I really feel my coronary heart beating in my wrist (laughter).
BIANCULLI: Sure. Beating wildly in my wrist. Sure. And so they did not even let that go.
GROSS: They did not let that go on the air…
BIANCULLI: Yeah.
GROSS: …Both? All proper. So – and drug references, you could not use these both.
BIANCULLI: Effectively, the drug references, in the event that they caught them they might take them out. However the ’60s, issues had been so new that they did not acknowledge plenty of them after they noticed them. So the Smothers had been in a position to slip some stuff by. And Tom truly loved this battle a bit bit, and so did Mason Williams, who was one of many writers. And they also would put in issues that actually meant nothing and instruct the crew and the writers and everyone round to snigger, like, soiled, sniggering, little laughs. And so the censors would say, properly, you’ll be able to’t say rowing to Galveston. And so they’d say, properly, why not? Effectively, you simply cannot say it. And they also would drive them loopy only for the enjoyable of it, too.
My interview with Terry, recorded in 2009 – extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JIMI HENDRIX SONG, “ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER”)
BIANCULLI: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my interview with Terry Gross concerning the common “Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour,” which aired on CBS between 1967 and 1969 earlier than the community fired the brothers and pulled the present.
GROSS: George Harrison got here on the present to assist the Smothers Brothers of their combat totally free speech on the present. And inform us a bit bit about that look after which we’ll hear a quick excerpt of it.
BIANCULLI: Effectively, I like the entire Beatles Smothers Brothers connection, as a result of in 1964, The Beatles present up on “Ed Sullivan” CBS Sunday night time. It makes The Beatles, it makes the entire British Invasion. It modifications society. 4 years later, The Beatles have stopped touring. They’re nonetheless the largest factor on the earth, and so they’ve made this new factor referred to as movies of “Hey Jude” and “Revolution.” And so for america premiere, as an alternative of giving them to Ed Sullivan Sunday night time at 8, they offer them to the Smothers Brothers Sunday night time at 9, , and that is principally saying attitudinally, we wish to aspect with our era. We wish to be the place the Smothers Brothers are. So initially of this one present, George Harrison simply reveals up, unbilled, a Beatle, simply to indicate up on “The Smothers Brothers.”
GROSS: Let’s hear it.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS COMEDY HOUR”)
T SMOTHERS: Do you’ve got one thing essential…
GEORGE HARRISON: One thing essential to say on American tv.
T SMOTHERS: You realize, we do not – we – plenty of occasions, we will not – we do not have the chance of claiming something essential as a result of it is American tv. Each time you say one thing…
(LAUGHTER)
T SMOTHERS: …And attempt to say one thing essential, they do you in.
(APPLAUSE)
HARRISON: Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap. Cue the traces. Effectively, whether or not you’ll be able to say it or not, maintain making an attempt to say it.
T SMOTHERS: That is what’s essential.
HARRISON: You get that?
GROSS: Maintain making an attempt to say it. That is what’s essential. Very attention-grabbing. From George Harrison to the Smothers Brothers. It is wonderful considering of getting a Beatle in 1968, unbilled and unannounced. Like, folks can be selling that for days, weeks, months…
BIANCULLI: I do know.
GROSS: …In the event that they knew…
BIANCULLI: I do know.
GROSS: …He was going to be on.
BIANCULLI: And you know the way a lot I like The Beatles. So I like that clip.
GROSS: Proper. Proper.
BIANCULLI: Yeah.
GROSS: Did that clip have any repercussions?
BIANCULLI: No. No. They had been – nevertheless it’s odd to me, after the present was, , after they had been fired and the present was pulled off, Bob Einstein, one of many writers, says, how do you cancel a present or hearth, , how do you eliminate a present that provides you a Beatle?
GROSS: So is there one present you’ll be able to level to that you simply assume actually did within the Smothers Brothers?
BIANCULLI: Oh, definitely. It is the primary time that David Steinberg got here on as a comic book and did a non secular sermonette – a comic book sermonette. It obtained extra destructive mail than something within the historical past of broadcasting as much as that time. And so the CBS censors despatched Tom Smothers a memo saying, OK, you’ll be able to have David Steinberg again, however no extra spiritual sermonettes ever. So he invitations David Steinberg again and, regardless that it is not within the script, says, hey; how’d you love to do one other a type of sermonettes? And they also add it in to the week’s run-through. And he does it. He tapes it. That whole hour is rarely proven. And the Smothers Brothers are fired very shortly thereafter.
GROSS: So that you truly introduced with you a recording of the sermonette that was by no means aired.
BIANCULLI: Sure. Yeah. These can be found now on – , Time Life has the final two seasons out of “The Smothers Brothers,” the very best of them. And one of many outtakes is that this as a result of it was by no means proven, this entire hour. Again then, nobody ever joked about faith aside from Invoice Cosby doing the Noah routine. And that was – , that wasn’t about content material. This was about content material.
GROSS: OK. So let’s hear it. That is David Steinberg.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS COMEDY HOUR”)
DAVID STEINBERG: He obtained right into a ship that was commandeered by 23 gentiles.
(LAUGHTER)
STEINBERG: A nasty transfer on Jonah’s half.
(LAUGHTER)
STEINBERG: And the gentiles, as they’re wont every now and then, threw the Jew overboard.
(LAUGHTER)
STEINBERG: Now, right here there are two ideas that we should take care of. There’s the New Testomony idea and the Previous Testomony idea. The Previous Testomony students say that Jonah was, in actual fact, swallowed by a whale. The Gentiles, the New Testomony students – they are saying, maintain it, Jews. No, Jonah wasn’t – Jonah – they actually grabbed the Jews by the Previous Testomony.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: OK. That is David Steinberg and – recorded in March of 1969, by no means broadcast on “The Smothers Brothers” present.
BIANCULLI: Yeah. There’s a fantastic story about that. When the Smothers Brothers sued CBS and went to trial, David Steinberg was referred to as as one of many witnesses. And the CBS attorneys, , made him redo his – that very factor. And so they cross-examined him and stated, now, while you had been saying New Testomony, did you – weren’t you truly referring to testicles? Weren’t you – and David Steinberg stated, properly, sure.
GROSS: (Laughter).
BIANCULLI: Why had been you doing that? – as a result of in any other case it would not be humorous. And, , it is no marvel the Smothers gained that case.
GROSS: Effectively, the case was, once more, that the community accused them of not delivering packages on time. And clearly what they had been actually apprehensive about was the form of content material and language that was, , getting them into bother.
BIANCULLI: Yeah. The large distinction is that the Smothers Brothers weren’t canceled. That they had already been renewed for a fourth season. They had been fired. And so Tom was reacting, saying he was fired unfairly as a result of something that he had signed by way of a contractual obligation he had lived as much as, that it was all these different little, , ephemeral issues that they’d thrown on him, , by way of the years that he hadn’t adhered to.
GROSS: And is that the grounds on which Tom Smothers sued CBS after CBS fired the Smothers Brothers?
BIANCULLI: Effectively, it is the one which went throughout to the top. He wished to to go on First Modification rights and actually make this an enormous case. However he was suggested by his ACLU attorneys, who had been the one individuals who would signify him, that that will put it in a distinct court docket. It will make it a distinct factor. And so simply go for this extra slim focus.
GROSS: Did the Smothers Brothers ask you to write down the e-book? You allude to that within the acknowledgments.
BIANCULLI: One time after I interviewed Tom, he stated, properly, are you going to write down the e-book? And I stated, what e-book? And he stated, properly, the e-book on us, as a result of I might written, in a earlier e-book, an entry on “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.” And I assume it was he agreed with it. And so he stated, I will provide you with whole entry however whole freedom. And as a journalist, that is simply one thing you do not get. And so I stated, properly, I will have to consider it. After which I waited three seconds, and I stated, OK. And he laughed. After which I keep in mind him taking place this very lengthy escalator in Atlantic Metropolis, and he yells up at me simply earlier than he goes outdoors. He goes, I simply wish to learn it earlier than I am lifeless. And that was 15 years in the past. So I thank Tom for taking such excellent care of himself.
GROSS: Effectively, David, I wish to thanks for speaking about your new e-book, Dangerously Humorous, concerning the Smothers Brothers.
BIANCULLI: It was my honor, actually.
Terry and I speaking concerning the Smothers Brothers again in 2009. Tom Smothers died final week. He was 86 years previous, and it is one of many highlights of my profession as a TV critic that my job gave me the chance to know and spend time with the Smothers Brothers. For our last piece of music as we speak, this is “Classical Gasoline,” written and carried out by one of many head writers of “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour,” Mason Williams.
(SOUNDBITE OF MASON WILLIAMS’ “CLASSICAL GAS”)
BIANCULLI: On Monday’s present, actor Sterling Okay. Brown. Within the miniseries “The Individuals V. O.J. Simpson,” Brown performed prosecutor Christopher Darden. He was one of many stars of the NBC sequence “This Is Us” and was in “Black Panther.” He co-stars within the new movie “American Fiction,” which is on plenty of 10 greatest lists. I hope you’ll be able to be a part of us.
(SOUNDBITE OF MASON WILLIAMS’ “CLASSICAL GAS”)
BIANCULLI: FRESH AIR’s government producer is Danny Miller. Our senior producer as we speak is Roberta Shorrock. For Terry Gross and Tonya Mosley, I am David Bianculli.
(SOUNDBITE OF MASON WILLIAMS’ “CLASSICAL GAS”)
Copyright © 2024 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional info.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This textual content will not be in its last type and could also be up to date or revised sooner or later. Accuracy and availability might range. The authoritative file of NPR’s programming is the audio file.
